And there you have it...a spot has opened up

[TSU88 1,068]

20 minutes ago, griggey20 said:

There are multiple reasons to be on a police blodder, peeing in public, getting into a fight, stealing cars and armed robery can all be found on a police blodder but that doesn't mean you're a bad kid because you end up on it.

To think that 18-22 yr old males don't make dumb mistakes and shouldn't get a 2nd chance is silly.  It's also not an inexact science.  

Winning is also not a hard and fast line either.  Winning 20 games is considered winning for some on this board while only a Sweet 16 performance is the only thing acceptable. 

I enjoy the banter and debate and we won't agree until PS wins a couple NCAA tourney games with 4 yr seniors, so keep it going!

Winning cures most, if not all, ills.  My personal litmus test isn’t winning a couple of NCAA tourney games, but instead it’s just making the damn tournament. 

As to kids on police blotters, let’s be clear-we’re talking about teenagers or young men in their early 20’s, so yes, there’s bound to be some missteps. And yes, there are degrees of missteps, ranging from trivial to very serious. And I’m all about giving kids 2nd chances. And maybe, statistically, having 3 kids on the police blotter in 9 years, out of all the kids who’ve come through the program, is less on average than the number of kids in the same age & demographic category in society in general who wind up on the police blotter. And it goes without saying we’re not the only program to have kids go rogue. All of this however doesn’t change the facts that we’ve had at least 3 kids in the PS era (hopefully it’s not more) who have wound up on the police blotter.  Draw whatever conclusions you like from that.  Honestly, I have no way of knowing how that compares to every other D1 program in the country over the same period of time.  By the same token, I don’t believe these numbers can simply be shrugged off, glossed over or rationalized away. The truth is that, for whatever reason, at least 6 kids (I’m not going to count the kid from Turkey, who was only here long enough to have a sip of Gatorade) in 9 years have either found there way to the police blotter or have quit, been booted off or transferred. Actually, in terms of transfers, I’ve left off a number of kids (Hawkins, Prophete, Marshall, Drayton, Mathews, and maybe some others, who’s names just escape me at the moment).

 

 

[TuTigers2012 1,060]

15 hours ago, TSU88 said:

I’m no Skerry apologist, but in all fairness 2012, we have to allow for the possibility that Skerry genuinely believes in the concept of lifting young guys like Betrand out of the hard scrabble environments they come from & getting them a college degree. I mean Skerry ain’t exactly running an outlaw program, a la Tark the Shark. 

My beef is that this altruistic motive of Skerry’s has resulted in multiple players (Hairston, Foster, Betrand) having run ins with the law, and has resulted in others (Morman, Ingram, Martin) quitting, transferring or getting booted out. That’s 6 guys in 9 years. Hell, if you’re going to recruit kids with the potential to go off the tracks, at least win. Skerry however has brought in problem children and hasn’t won (at least not when it most counts, in the conference tournament). That’s not a good combo 
 

I know and understand that everyone comes from different backgrounds and walks of life. Not everyone is going to be a saint, but it can become a slippery slope when other players/recruits see the results of what happens to players in trouble.

14 hours ago, mat1992 said:

When you have 13 players on scholarship, the probability that everybody is a saint is pretty low. I also think PS believes in second chances and if a player has talent, he's worth keeping around, assuming he doesn't eff up again.  If you are going to blame him for keeping a few bad eggs or shaky eggs, you might as well blame 349 of the other basketball coaches. 

I'm not blaming him, just pointing something out. Not everyone is perfect, and I believe in second chances also. Pat's done a good job keeping the bad things his players have done out of the media. Some of these transgressions have been pretty bad, granted it's not like they are throwing chairs through windows of the Union and starting a melee at the BSU ala Rick Brown.

1 hour ago, griggey20 said:

There are multiple reasons to be on a police blodder, peeing in public, getting into a fight, stealing cars and armed robery can all be found on a police blodder but that doesn't mean you're a bad kid because you end up on it.

To think that 18-22 yr old males don't make dumb mistakes and shouldn't get a 2nd chance is silly.  It's also not an inexact science.  

Winning is also not a hard and fast line either.  Winning 20 games is considered winning for some on this board while only a Sweet 16 performance is the only thing acceptable. 

I enjoy the banter and debate and we won't agree until PS wins a couple NCAA tourney games with 4 yr seniors, so keep it going!

Arrests and ending up in the court system is pretty bad. We aren't just talking peeing in public and noise violations here. If so, almost every player would be involved.

No one is expecting winning NCAA Tournament games...lol. The measuring stick and goal should be (and is for everyone on here) winning the CAA tournament and making it to the NCAA's. I'd even take just playing in the CAA Final at this point.  Scratch that, I would take a win in ANY CAAT game. In the last 3 years 9 of the 10 teams have won a game, guess which hasn't?!

Towson 0-3

Drexel 2-3

JMU 1-3

Delaware 3-3

Elon 2-3

Charleston 4-2

WM 1-3

NE 7-2

Hofstra 5-2

UNCW 2-3

 

The two teams with 1 win each, were both against us, and they both have since fired their coaches. Elon has more CAAT wins in 6 years in the league than PS does in 9 years. Elon's first year coach won as many CAAT games in 23 hours as PS has in 9 years.

 

[mat1992 2,228]

Ah, here come the stat guys. I really don't care how many guys have left or who have stayed. That happens at just about every program. Some win tournaments with multiple players leaving. Some like Hofstra stay and maybe that's because the starters all play 35+ minutes a game. If the bench players don't mind getting no time, they stay. I can't defend the overall tournament numbers and apparently, that's the only thing that matters to some people. Not the regular season or conference record which certainly is admirable. But I get it. It's all about making the Big Dance and believe me, I want it just as bad as anyone and we will be celebrating the 30th anniversary in 2021 of our last appearance.

Fringe players leave all the freakin' time. Who cares? However, when a Zane, a Gorham and a Betrand exit, it does become more glaring. All different circumstances, but it doesn't feel any better when you lose talented players. You do your best to keep them, but in today's climate, it's nearly impossible. No kid is ever happy. He should get more shots, he should get more playing time, the coach is too tough, the classes are too tough, he's too far away from, kid has off-the court issues, he's too close to home, his parents are overbearing. You can't please everybody and transfers are just a part of life everywhere. Even Duke. 

The bottom line is getting through that and finding a way to win with a different mix each year. This year, we'll basically have an entirely new team aside from our point guard. Is that a bad thing for a pretty good team that failed in the postseason? No idea. I think we get Holland eligible, it will take some time, but we could be improved. If he's not, who knows. We could really struggle to score without a proven double-digit scorer.

[griggey20 178]

3 hours ago, Bay Area Tiger said:

Mount Rushmore of cheating college basketball coaches...

I have Wooden/Tarkanian/Calipari/Pitino 

Rudy Gay may tell you to add Jim Calhoun 

[mat1992 2,228]

One of the greatest quotes of all time came from "Tark the Shark"

"The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky, they're going to give Cleveland State another year of probation."

[TuTigers2012 1,060]

3 hours ago, mat1992 said:

Ah, here come the stat guys. I really don't care how many guys have left or who have stayed. That happens at just about every program. Some win tournaments with multiple players leaving. Some like Hofstra stay and maybe that's because the starters all play 35+ minutes a game. If the bench players don't mind getting no time, they stay. I can't defend the overall tournament numbers and apparently, that's the only thing that matters to some people. Not the regular season or conference record which certainly is admirable. But I get it. It's all about making the Big Dance and believe me, I want it just as bad as anyone and we will be celebrating the 30th anniversary in 2021 of our last appearance.

Fringe players leave all the freakin' time. Who cares? However, when a Zane, a Gorham and a Betrand exit, it does become more glaring. All different circumstances, but it doesn't feel any better when you lose talented players. You do your best to keep them, but in today's climate, it's nearly impossible. No kid is ever happy. He should get more shots, he should get more playing time, the coach is too tough, the classes are too tough, he's too far away from, kid has off-the court issues, he's too close to home, his parents are overbearing. You can't please everybody and transfers are just a part of life everywhere. Even Duke. 

The bottom line is getting through that and finding a way to win with a different mix each year. This year, we'll basically have an entirely new team aside from our point guard. Is that a bad thing for a pretty good team that failed in the postseason? No idea. I think we get Holland eligible, it will take some time, but we could be improved. If he's not, who knows. We could really struggle to score without a proven double-digit scorer.

Sorry, but stats matter whether your like them or not. Facts over feelings.

We have been the worst team in the CAAT under Pat Skerry. FACT. 

We have won a good portion of our OOC and CAA games under Pat Skerry. FACT

We have beat up on bad teams in and out of conference, and lack a "significant/big" win under Pat Skerry. FACT

We have done a great job of graduating our players under Pat Skerry. FACT

Our attendance, fan support and moral is slight (very slight, like not noticeable) better under Pat Skerry. FACT

We play in a much easier conference now, than 10 years ago. FACT

Pat has really good resources and advantages and we still fall short every year of expectations. FACT 

Players have and are coming and going at a higher rate than our peers under Pat Skerry. FACT

 

I get that the role players transferring happen all the time and people don't care, but the ones getting a lot of the shots and PT transferring is concerning.

We could be better than last year if Holland can play. Who knows. The CAA should be a real stinker next year.

 

The Skerry Cycle: Players leave- New team and tons of new faces- Skerry talks them up "I like them, they love being here, tight nit group"- False hope- Something weird happens- Season begins- Beat the crappy local schools- Lose to the halfway decent and good teams- Something weird happens(injury, transfer, ineligible player, someone quits)- CAA play begins and we start off poorly- We bitch on here- Skerry makes a change and tells us they are just gelling- We win a few in a row and peak- Lose in first round of tournament- 1/2 on here want to throw Pat a parade down York road, the others deem the season as a failure- Players transfer and it begins again. Like clock work

[Tgr4life 167]

20 minutes ago, TuTigers2012 said:

Sorry, but stats matter whether your like them or not. Facts over feelings.

We have been the worst team in the CAAT under Pat Skerry. FACT. 

We have won a good portion of our OOC and CAA games under Pat Skerry. FACT

We have beat up on bad teams in and out of conference, and lack a "significant/big" win under Pat Skerry. FACT

We have done a great job of graduating our players under Pat Skerry. FACT

Our attendance, fan support and moral is slight (very slight, like not noticeable) better under Pat Skerry. FACT

We play in a much easier conference now, than 10 years ago. FACT

Pat has really good resources and advantages and we still fall short every year of expectations. FACT 

Players have and are coming and going at a higher rate than our peers under Pat Skerry. FACT

 

I get that the role players transferring happen all the time and people don't care, but the ones getting a lot of the shots and PT transferring is concerning.

We could be better than last year if Holland can play. Who knows. The CAA should be a real stinker next year.

 

The Skerry Cycle: Players leave- New team and tons of new faces- Skerry talks them up "I like them, they love being here, tight nit group"- False hope- Something weird happens- Season begins- Beat the crappy local schools- Lose to the halfway decent and good teams- Something weird happens(injury, transfer, ineligible player, someone quits)- CAA play begins and we start off poorly- We bitch on here- Skerry makes a change and tells us they are just gelling- We win a few in a row and peak- Lose in first round of tournament- 1/2 on here want to throw Pat a parade down York road, the others deem the season as a failure- Players transfer and it begins again. Like clock work

I could not agree with you more. When you have the list of Mt. Rushmore of "cheating"....at least they won. The old saying is if you are going to cheat, you should at least win. As far as Skerry, I have no idea how anyone can defend his time at Towson. Every year is a new excuse as to why he fails at tournament time. You can talk about graduating and being a nice guy...supposedly... But you don't get extensions because a team has a 3.0. You don't get extensions because you are chummy with donors. You get extensions because you win important games....and we are still waiting. 

As far as I am concerned his years have been better than Coach Kennedy, but it total, his time has been unsuccessful. Coaches in this, a rather mediocre CAA, have been replaced after accomplishing much more. I look forward to the day that the Tigers hoist a CAA Championship trophy. I don't think it will be during the Skerry tenure.

[griggey20 178]

I just wish you younger guys understood what this program was like a short 10 years ago.  We were the laughing stock of the CAA in the early 2000's.  Less than 300 people in the stands for home games, playing in a HS gym with guys who couldn't even transfer out becuase DII schools didn't even want them.  I get we all want the NCAA tournament but this change in mindset takes time, clearly longer than some you want.  I guess that you believe it is a settling mindselt and we are settling with PS but as soon as we can get 5,000 fans to be as passionate as all of us to sell out the Towson Center is when we can hire/fire coaches and buy out contracts.  Until then, we have a solid coach who has taken us up the CAA standings and we all hope that he can get us to the next step.

Clearly some have given up on that hope but some of us still believe he can do it.  I urge you to go look at box scores from the 2002-2003 and 2003-2004 seasons if you want to see a program to be embarrassed of. 

[mat1992 2,228]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

24 minutes ago, griggey20 said:

I just wish you younger guys understood what this program was like a short 10 years ago.  We were the laughing stock of the CAA in the early 2000's.  Less than 300 people in the stands for home games, playing in a HS gym with guys who couldn't even transfer out becuase DII schools didn't even want them.  I get we all want the NCAA tournament but this change in mindset takes time, clearly longer than some you want.  I guess that you believe it is a settling mindselt and we are settling with PS but as soon as we can get 5,000 fans to be as passionate as all of us to sell out the Towson Center is when we can hire/fire coaches and buy out contracts.  Until then, we have a solid coach who has taken us up the CAA standings and we all hope that he can get us to the next step.

Clearly some have given up on that hope but some of us still believe he can do it.  I urge you to go look at box scores from the 2002-2003 and 2003-2004 seasons if you want to see a program to be embarrassed of. 

I'm just to the point where I've given up. Not on the program, but defending it. It is what it is. We had 15 straight losing seasons and nobody in the stands. I could take competitive teams with most players who graduate. I'm done arguing with certain people who bring up the fact that Towson is 6-14 on Thursdays in January after a home game in the CAA during snowstorms when we take a bus.

[TSU88 1,068]

I personally like to stir the pot and engage others in dialogue, especially since even those I don’t agree with on here never get personal.  It is a message board after all; ideally should have a cross section of opinions, some of which we’ll like; some we won’t.

So, that being said, the “look how bad the program was 10 years ago” argument is falling on completely deaf ears with me. That’s a decade ago-way in the rear view mirror. Defend him or excoriate him, but the current coach has to stand or fall on his own record.  Also, don’t agree that we should blithely dismiss stats. Stats are the lifeblood of sports. It’s how we measure individual and team performances, as well as the performance of coaches. There’s an old saying that goes “there are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics.” Means that we can usually manipulate stats to stand for whatever proposition we support. However, some stats are not susceptible to manipulation, such as Skerry’s record in the CAA tournament 

Edited May 7, 2020 by TSU88