General Basketball Thread for 2024-25

[Bay Area Tiger 347]

I’m with 2012 & 88 now.  Part of the New World Order for Towson Fans.  I’m done with this coaching regime.  
Mr Optimistic no more.  Zero confidence.  
I want change.  This guy served and is counted.  Time to pass the torch.  
 

[Tiger93 299]

9 minutes ago, BK_Brian said:

Some of you guys are ridiculous, but its the same thing year after year.  Look at Oakland University and Greg Kampe.  He began his career at Oakland in 1984 (granted they were D2 at the time) and he was at the school for 21 years and they first made the Tourney in 2005.  They have now made it 4 times in the last 20 years.

Jim Larranga was a head coach for 13 seasons (btwn Bowling Green and GM) before one of his teams first qualified for the Tourney.  His GM team then made it to the Tourney 5 times in the next 13 seasons before he left for Miami.

James Jones of Yale, his first season was 99-00 and in his 17th season his team first qualified.  His team has now made the Tourney 4 of the last 8 seasons.

In Pat's 13 seasons we have not yet made the Tourney, but that 2012-2013 team was good and I bet would have won the conference tournament had it not been for Pat Kennedy and the shit show we had in place before Skerry.  For Skerry's 13 seasons at TU (including that first one) we've had a winning record 9 of 13 seasons.  When we have good players they generally stay in the program and don't transfer out at the first opportunity.  Moreover, this year we have two players on the all-rookie team.  

What I'm trying to say is that good things come to those who wait.  He's been putting a pretty consistent/competitive team out on the Court and our time will come.  Skerry has made this team semi-relevant and he's the reason I actually care about TU sports again. (I graduated in 1999.)  Let the man work and support the fing team.

  

 

 

I am stuck in the middle of the two arguments.

Greg Kampe is probably the best example and I was going to put the link to his bio for reference. He was in D2 for his 13 years and his team won never won more than one game in the conference tournament in six tries, and took until his 12th year to finish first in the conference. When they moved to D-1 in his 14th year, they weren't eligible to win the tournament for his four years. He did not win a conference tournament game in the first three years he was eligible and then in his 22nd year and 8th year in D-1 he made his first trip to the NCAA Tournament and won three conference tournament games. Since that trip, his team has won the conference tournament three more times and they got their first win in the NCAA Tournament this year. 

https://goldengrizzlies.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/greg-kampe/1764

It took Larranaga until year 15 to get to his first NCAA Tournament, but he did it in year two at George Mason so they didn't have to wait long. I didn't have the patience to dig back through the Bowling Green conference tournament record to see what he did there, but the one big difference is they pulled off a number of upsets and had Antonio Daniels play in the NBA. He was off and running once he made the NCAA Tournament the first time going to another one two years later and NITs in two of the following three years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Larrañaga

James Jones is actually a decent case study because in his first 15 season he had a below .500 record. When his team finished tied for first in 2014-15 Harvard went because of the tiebreaker. If we didn't have a conference tournament this would have happened in Benimon's last year with Delaware getting the tiebreaker. If we didn't have a conference tournament, Towson would have ended its drought in 2021-22 with the tiebreaker over UNC-W. Of course, we also would have been the Big South champs under Truax in 1994.

The next year Jones finally got over the hump. He has been three times since (would have been four if not for COVID). The big difference and probably benefit to Jones is there was no Ivy League Tournament to judge him on. It was all the regular-season and he generally finished in the top 3 or 4 in most of his first 15 seasons similar to Skerry. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Jones_(basketball,_born_1964)

I say I am in middle because while I am not holding pitchfork asking to fire Skerry, he has several major differences to these guys that I see (although some of these will be generalizations that I am not sure I can fully quantify). The four things I am mainly critical of Skerry for is lack of getting to a conference tournament final, lack of a signature non-conference win in many tries, not seeing many of his players drastically improve while being here, and playing a style that at times can be tough to watch. 

I think the best argument for Skerry is the last three years. In a chaotic period of time in NCAA D-1 Basketball, he has turned over the roster a decent amount and done a solid job of roster management to pull in good transfers to keep us competitive. We have finished 1st, t-3rd and 4th, are 66-35 overall and 38-16 the last three year years. The last three years Hofstra is 41-13, Charleston and UNC-W are 39-15 and we are 38-16 in conference play.

I know it is relatively small progress, but we went from a no-show against Delaware in the 2022 semis, to hanging with a very good Charleston team in the 2023 semis for 33 minutes to blowing what should have been at trip to the finals this year. I know this isn't really a good thing, but this year was also the first time in Skerry's tenure we beat a team seeded higher than us in the conference tournament  (although we almost didn't get there with a bad performance against William & Mary to be fair). My point here is there has been some progress, and if you were Eigonbrot who has been around for a good part of this three-year period why would you contemplate firing Skerry. You wouldn't. 

My point in all this is I am very frustrated with what Skerry can't do and don't completely rule out the crowd that wants him fired now, but there is good and bad. This shouldn't stop us from trying to replace him if there ever was a desire by the AD to do so, but it wouldn't be easy to find a coach of his quality to replace him. He has been very solid. We need him to be better. He has taken small steps in the right direction the last three years, but there are a lot of ways and his previous years can be ammunition for and against his case. 

[TuTigers2012 1,071]

57 minutes ago, BK_Brian said:

Some of you guys are ridiculous, but its the same thing year after year.  Look at Oakland University and Greg Kampe.  He began his career at Oakland in 1984 (granted they were D2 at the time) and he was at the school for 21 years and they first made the Tourney in 2005.  They have now made it 4 times in the last 20 years.

Jim Larranga was a head coach for 13 seasons (btwn Bowling Green and GM) before one of his teams first qualified for the Tourney.  His GM team then made it to the Tourney 5 times in the next 13 seasons before he left for Miami.

James Jones of Yale, his first season was 99-00 and in his 17th season his team first qualified.  His team has now made the Tourney 4 of the last 8 seasons.

In Pat's 13 seasons we have not yet made the Tourney, but that 2012-2013 team was good and I bet would have won the conference tournament had it not been for Pat Kennedy and the shit show we had in place before Skerry.  For Skerry's 13 seasons at TU (including that first one) we've had a winning record 9 of 13 seasons.  When we have good players they generally stay in the program and don't transfer out at the first opportunity.  Moreover, this year we have two players on the all-rookie team.  

What I'm trying to say is that good things come to those who wait.  He's been putting a pretty consistent/competitive team out on the Court and our time will come.  Skerry has made this team semi-relevant and he's the reason I actually care about TU sports again. (I graduated in 1999.)  Let the man work and support the fing team.

  

 

 

Some of you defenders are ridiculous.

Kampe has made 4 tourneys in their 24 years of D1, including 3 in the first 12.  Skerry has 0 in his first 13.  He also makes significantly less money than Skerry.

Larranaga made it in his second season at Mason, and another 4 times in his 14 years... in a much more difficult conference. Add in he had just one losing season (and CAA losing) season, his first year.

James Jones, Ivy league so it's totally different. Until the last few years (when they've made the dance), you needed to win the league to get in, now its a 4 team tournament. Much easier and hence the success.

Everyone always bring up that 2012-13 team and says they would have won it. What makes you say that?  Were they good? Yes.  Were they peaking at the right time? Yes.  Was the league weak? Yes.  But we have seen that story before (about 12 other times), the choking when the pressure is on.  Playing hypotheticals and what if's don't count, sorry.

We all support the team. And the most vocal ones about change, are actually the ones who support them more (sans one or two). We see what the issues are first hand.  88, Royal, myself all have and had season tickets. I've been to more road games in 16 years than most people have been to home games combined. I donate to the TAF with an emphasis on the hoops program.  Being a .510 career coach just shouldn't cut it anymore in year 13+

[TuTigers2012 1,071]

49 minutes ago, Bay Area Tiger said:

I’m with 2012 & 88 now.  Part of the New World Order for Towson Fans.  I’m done with this coaching regime.  
Mr Optimistic no more.  Zero confidence.  
I want change.  This guy served and is counted.  Time to pass the torch.  
 

I’d say welcome to the dark side, but have a feeling you will be back to your hopefully self in a few weeks and putting non refundable deposits down on tourney sites for 2025 😂 

[Tiger93 299]

3 minutes ago, TuTigers2012 said:

Some of you defenders are ridiculous.

Kampe has made 4 tourneys in their 24 years of D1, including 3 in the first 12.  Skerry has 0 in his first 13.  He also makes significantly less money than Skerry.

Larranaga made it in his second season at Mason, and another 4 times in his 14 years... in a much more difficult conference. Add in he had just one losing season (and CAA losing) season, his first year.

James Jones, Ivy league so it's totally different. Until the last few years (when they've made the dance), you needed to win the league to get in, now its a 4 team tournament. Much easier and hence the success.

Everyone always bring up that 2012-13 team and says they would have won it. What makes you say that?  Were they good? Yes.  Were they peaking at the right time? Yes.  Was the league weak? Yes.  But we have seen that story before (about 12 other times), the choking when the pressure is on.  Playing hypotheticals and what if's don't count, sorry.

We all support the team. And the most vocal ones about change, are actually the ones who support them more (sans one or two). We see what the issues are first hand.  88, Royal, myself all have and had season tickets. I've been to more road games in 16 years than most people have been to home games combined. I donate to the TAF with an emphasis on the hoops program.  Being a .510 career coach just shouldn't cut it anymore in year 13+

First of all, thank you for your financial donations. It is appreciated that you make that choice out of loyalty to the program.

I can't argue with most of this, but I don't agree with propping yourself up as bigger fans than the rest of us. Everyone expresses fandom differently. I would probably have season tickets if I lived there, but I don't so I support them in a different way. What people do with their finances is their own business, and I don't view at as being bigger or better fans than others.

I appreciate your call for a change and you have a lot of valid points, but it doesn't mean you are right, more knowledgeable or better informed than everyone else on here. There are a lot of different ways to run a program that can be successful. I actually agree that we may be hitting a point where there is not much room for improvement, however I think there are also arguments against that when you look at the last three years (I know that is slicing and dicing the argument that probably should be made over a longer time period).

You also have to take into account that I believe there have been five presidents and three ADs since Skerry started. They will all have different views. Waddell hired him, Leonard extended him, and Eigonbrot has seen probably the best three-year stretch in this program's D-1 history since we actually made the NCAA Tournament. That doesn't mean it is good enough, but I think you all have a distorted view on how our AD should see things. He doesn't have the baggage the rest of us do. That doesn't mean we should hold back from expressing our disappointment. 

I have some of the same complaints and can't blame you for hitting a point where you are beyond frustrated, but I do think there are valid reasons for being supportive of Skerry too. I appreciate the different viewpoints on this board. It is the reason I still come here as an out-of-state fan. Also, anyone who is coming to this message board on a regular basis, which is generally an outdated way of doing this these days, deserves credit for being a pretty big fan of Towson. To rank where we all stand doesn't really make too much sense to me. 

[Chris Datres 423]

Citing James Jones in that list might be pushing it a little bit because it's the Ivy League.  They'll fire a scientist for not producing a Nobel winner faster than they'll fire a basketball coach.  Here's the last time each Ivy League school fired their basketball coach for on-court performance:

Penn -- 2009 (Jerome Allen had some shady stuff going on and ended up getting a 15-year show cause from the NCAA)

Princeton -- at least 1945

Columbia -- 2003

Cornell -- 2016 (contract not renewed)

Yale -- at least 1947

Harvard -- 2007

Brown -- 2012

Dartmouth -- 2016

[Chris Datres 423]

The best parallel example to Skerry is Tod Kowalczyk at Toledo.  I outlined this a couple weeks ago -- He's been there as long as Skerry has been here and Toledo has been the 1 seed in each of the last 4 MAC Tournaments.  They've lost every time.  Their tournament drought is longer than ours.  And I read today that Kowalczyk is being talked about for the job at Utah State.

[mat1992 2,236]

Charles Thompson nominated for Defensive Player of the Year 

https://x.com/caabasketball/status/1772357005690245557?s=46&t=nScacl1TWT-KyOwj5stBaw

[Tgr4life 169]

2 hours ago, Tiger93 said:

I am stuck in the middle of the two arguments.

Greg Kampe is probably the best example and I was going to put the link to his bio for reference. He was in D2 for his 13 years and his team won never won more than one game in the conference tournament in six tries, and took until his 12th year to finish first in the conference. When they moved to D-1 in his 14th year, they weren't eligible to win the tournament for his four years. He did not win a conference tournament game in the first three years he was eligible and then in his 22nd year and 8th year in D-1 he made his first trip to the NCAA Tournament and won three conference tournament games. Since that trip, his team has won the conference tournament three more times and they got their first win in the NCAA Tournament this year. 

https://goldengrizzlies.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/greg-kampe/1764

It took Larranaga until year 15 to get to his first NCAA Tournament, but he did it in year two at George Mason so they didn't have to wait long. I didn't have the patience to dig back through the Bowling Green conference tournament record to see what he did there, but the one big difference is they pulled off a number of upsets and had Antonio Daniels play in the NBA. He was off and running once he made the NCAA Tournament the first time going to another one two years later and NITs in two of the following three years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Larrañaga

James Jones is actually a decent case study because in his first 15 season he had a below .500 record. When his team finished tied for first in 2014-15 Harvard went because of the tiebreaker. If we didn't have a conference tournament this would have happened in Benimon's last year with Delaware getting the tiebreaker. If we didn't have a conference tournament, Towson would have ended its drought in 2021-22 with the tiebreaker over UNC-W. Of course, we also would have been the Big South champs under Truax in 1994.

The next year Jones finally got over the hump. He has been three times since (would have been four if not for COVID). The big difference and probably benefit to Jones is there was no Ivy League Tournament to judge him on. It was all the regular-season and he generally finished in the top 3 or 4 in most of his first 15 seasons similar to Skerry. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Jones_(basketball,_born_1964)

I say I am in middle because while I am not holding pitchfork asking to fire Skerry, he has several major differences to these guys that I see (although some of these will be generalizations that I am not sure I can fully quantify). The four things I am mainly critical of Skerry for is lack of getting to a conference tournament final, lack of a signature non-conference win in many tries, not seeing many of his players drastically improve while being here, and playing a style that at times can be tough to watch. 

I think the best argument for Skerry is the last three years. In a chaotic period of time in NCAA D-1 Basketball, he has turned over the roster a decent amount and done a solid job of roster management to pull in good transfers to keep us competitive. We have finished 1st, t-3rd and 4th, are 66-35 overall and 38-16 the last three year years. The last three years Hofstra is 41-13, Charleston and UNC-W are 39-15 and we are 38-16 in conference play.

I know it is relatively small progress, but we went from a no-show against Delaware in the 2022 semis, to hanging with a very good Charleston team in the 2023 semis for 33 minutes to blowing what should have been at trip to the finals this year. I know this isn't really a good thing, but this year was also the first time in Skerry's tenure we beat a team seeded higher than us in the conference tournament  (although we almost didn't get there with a bad performance against William & Mary to be fair). My point here is there has been some progress, and if you were Eigonbrot who has been around for a good part of this three-year period why would you contemplate firing Skerry. You wouldn't. 

My point in all this is I am very frustrated with what Skerry can't do and don't completely rule out the crowd that wants him fired now, but there is good and bad. This shouldn't stop us from trying to replace him if there ever was a desire by the AD to do so, but it wouldn't be easy to find a coach of his quality to replace him. He has been very solid. We need him to be better. He has taken small steps in the right direction the last three years, but there are a lot of ways and his previous years can be ammunition for and against his case. 

I think it would be pretty to find a coach of his caliber except I am not sure there is one who in 13 years has not been to a conference final.  A half million for a guy who cant even get to a mediocre conferences finals is not one worth retaining. 

[TuTigers2012 1,071]

3 hours ago, Tiger93 said:

First of all, thank you for your financial donations. It is appreciated that you make that choice out of loyalty to the program.

I can't argue with most of this, but I don't agree with propping yourself up as bigger fans than the rest of us. Everyone expresses fandom differently. I would probably have season tickets if I lived there, but I don't so I support them in a different way. What people do with their finances is their own business, and I don't view at as being bigger or better fans than others.

I appreciate your call for a change and you have a lot of valid points, but it doesn't mean you are right, more knowledgeable or better informed than everyone else on here. There are a lot of different ways to run a program that can be successful. I actually agree that we may be hitting a point where there is not much room for improvement, however I think there are also arguments against that when you look at the last three years (I know that is slicing and dicing the argument that probably should be made over a longer time period).

You also have to take into account that I believe there have been five presidents and three ADs since Skerry started. They will all have different views. Waddell hired him, Leonard extended him, and Eigonbrot has seen probably the best three-year stretch in this program's D-1 history since we actually made the NCAA Tournament. That doesn't mean it is good enough, but I think you all have a distorted view on how our AD should see things. He doesn't have the baggage the rest of us do. That doesn't mean we should hold back from expressing our disappointment. 

I have some of the same complaints and can't blame you for hitting a point where you are beyond frustrated, but I do think there are valid reasons for being supportive of Skerry too. I appreciate the different viewpoints on this board. It is the reason I still come here as an out-of-state fan. Also, anyone who is coming to this message board on a regular basis, which is generally an outdated way of doing this these days, deserves credit for being a pretty big fan of Towson. To rank where we all stand doesn't really make too much sense to me. 

I wasn’t trying to say I or anyone else is a bigger fan. If it came off that way, I apologize. Im fortunate enough to live close, in Baltimore (if you consider that fortunate 😂), and work in Towson, so it makes it easy for me to attend games and other events. I was calling out that poster who said to support the team. I do and always will even though I no longer support the coach.
 

Seeing around 20 games in person a year and watch pretty much everyone on flo or whatever is different than some of the others who listen to spiro (lol) and comment after. 

Appreciate your post and there are lots of good points. We have hit our ceiling under skerry. It is and was time to move on. He did an overall good job but can’t do anymore. Always thought he would be a better Athletics administrator than coach. As tired as you and others on here may be of me repeating the same things, it goes both way and I tire of the lame excuses for pat.  361 other teams would have moved on by now, but not us.